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BERCHTESGADEN TODAY
USARMY1946
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:02:10 PM
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TTHE LATEST FROM BERCHTESGADEN ACCORDING TO THE INTERNATIONAL LUGE FEDERATION OFFICE LOCATED IN B-GARDEN. “THE HOTEL POST IS BEING DEMOLISHED RIGHT NOW AND A NEW HOTEL WILL BE BUILT THERE (HOTEL EDELWEISS) WHICH HAS CAUSED QUITE A CONTROVERSITY AMONG THE B-GARDEN POPULATION. ON THE ONE HAND IT WILL OFFER THE HIGH STANDARD ROOMS REQUIRED (AND MISSING RIGHT NOW) NEAR THE CONGRESS CENTER. ON THE OTHER HAND, SOME PEOPLE THINKTHE NEW BUILDING MIGHT BE TO HIGH AND WILL SPOIL THE BEAUTIFUL B-GARDEN”


“WHERE THE FORMER B-HOF USED TO BE “HAUS DE BERG“ WILL BE CONSTRUCTED, AN INFORMATION CENTER FOR THE B-GARDEN NATIONAL PARK. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE BIG AN INNOVATIVE AND THEY HOPE FOR LOTS OF VISITORS. FOR EXAMPLE, EVERY SCHOOL CLASS IN GERMANY IS SUPPOSED TO VISIT IT ONCE. IT SHOULD BE FINISHED IN 2009 OR 2010 AND IS CONSIDERED GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR B-GARDEN.“


THE ABOVE RECEIVED ON FEBRUARY 11, 2008.


BOB COLE


 

dadosteel
#2 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2007 3:45:18 PM
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I hafta say it is sad to see the town being leveled and replaced one piece at a time. What was so awful about all these buildings that the German Republic feels it MUST be torn down?  Is “quaint” really so bad? I hope that whatever they build, somehow, the magic is rekindled in that town of B Gaden.


 


Ps.  You have a beautiful family Bill

Bill Sutherland
#3 Posted : Friday, April 20, 2007 11:29:35 PM
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You are so right Jim, my years over and the memories won't every pass.

JAMES CAREY
#4 Posted : Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:23:08 AM
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Now children………let’s control our emotions.


 


The hardest thing for most of us ‘ol-timers’ is the fact that time has passed us by.  In that you must think like the “baby-boomer” citizens of Berchtesgaden think.


 


When WWII wound down and USAREUR “took-command” of all the Nazi real estate the German folk were struggling to get their feet on the ground.  Many of the Germans were not supportive to the Nazi Party.  They were puppets to the Reich.  They kept their mouths shut and went with the flow.  When you live under such control as the party had you play-roll your life in order to survive.  You know, this is much like the lives of people in the Baltic’s, Poland and other such countries, that had to “play” the part or become a card carrying member of the Evil Empire.


 


I remember back in 1971 the Bavarian State Minestry came to Berchtesgaden and met with the AFRC-BRA staff.  They handed us the “TITLE” to all the Nazi Property, which included 100% of the Obersalzburg.  They literally wanted to “wash their hands” of the past.  We, the Americans, were responsible for what ever became the property.  The only property on the Obersalzburg that the US Army did not control was the Hotel Zum Turken.   This property was relinquished to the original owners, who remained in Berchtesgaden after the war.  A sergeant (name unknown) married the inn keeper’s daughter.  When the owner died the sergeant and his wife remained at the Turken, and when I departed in 1974 they were still living there.  The famous Kehlsteinhaus was given to the Bavarian Mountain Climbers Association.  Had this not happened it was scheduled for demolition.   Albert Speer's House was given back to the family.  Most everything else was torn down.  The Buchenhohe settlements were left to the people that worked for the Reich and were still living there at the end of the war.  Bibi Finken’s parents were living in this area.  That is how Bibi ended at the Walker working in the bar.  He later ended working as assistant to Herr Kuttner in the dining room.  As a reminder from Frau Rauscher, Bibi Finken still lives in Berchtesgaden (around 60?) and he runs since a couple of years a very nice gasthaus "Holzkaefer" up the the Buchenhoehe (near General Walker), Phone 08652-62107.”


 


Now,  to the present city council which is made-up of most of these “baby-boomers”,  I believe they are not too proud of the past.  Remember, it was their parents that either were died-in-the-wool members of the Nazi Party and/or just shuffled through life during the war.   In their minds they believe the tearing down anything that was part of that era will make things better.    


 


When the US Army left in 1995 the agreement with the Bavarian State Minestry reverted back to Munich.  It was Munich that didn’t want the property some twenty-three years earlier.  That is why “we”, the US Army, got the TITLE in the first place.  Well, I gather Munich gave it back to the Berchtesgaden City Council order to “clean-up” the books, thus it became their “problem” and for them to do as they wish.


 


You know, I agree with all of you RAIDERS.  I feel the same way.  I don’t understand what the new people are thinking.  I don’t know if things will work out for them.  You have to remember, we were from the age of Janis Joplin,  Jimi Hendrix,  Roberta “Killing Me Softly”  Flack, and many more.  We were the “baby-boomers”, of The Sexual Revolution, Flower Children and Pot Heads of yesterday.  This city council is now the “CYBER-BOOMERS” of the 21st Century.  I wish them the best.  I hope and prey that everything they wish to accomplish will pan out.


 


In closing, I can only thank God for the times I had in Berchtesgaden.  It was a “golden-era” for a small group of people.  People that today only have memories of the past.  A time that we all wish still exists.  Let’s all respect each other and the times we spent there.  Name calling, stereo-typing gets nothing done.


 


 


 


 

Bill Sutherland
#5 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:03:47 AM
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Hey Bob;


 


I was there last week and took pictures. The didn't tear down the entire Post Hotel but about half of it... See http://www.sgtbilly.smugmug.com/gallery/4286405_tsM9K#27153870


its suppose to be a 5-star hotel once completed. (there I have pictures.) See above link.


 I also alluded to this in my message on “Berchtesgaden Blues”.  Apparently those members in B'gaden didn't get the memo, no one goes there anymore, and if it weren't my wifes family I would rather be spending time in nearby Salzburg. As far as them building the “Haus De Burg”- what a bunch of crap. Bavarian don't know what the word “innovation” is until it passes them by. Auf Wiedersehen, ihr sind alle fuer mich zu Bloed!


Sgtbilly sends!


 

USARMY1946
#6 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:01:39 PM
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Control yourself Billy-Bob. We all know that you have risen to the high rank of Sergeant First Class and have all the answers regarding Berchtesgaden. I have no reason to not belive the folks that live there on a day-to-day basics. It may not be the hell raising place that some folks may have liked in the past, but I'm sure their future will not be in our hands. Who in Berchtesgaden cares what you or I think and not everyone is so “Bloed” as you indicate in your remarks. Poor taste, gutter language.
Bill Sutherland
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:13:04 AM
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I had commented on this early this morning and apparently it was deleted or it didn’t get uploaded. So here it is again in the short version- “US Army 46,” - I would prefer you address me as either Sgt. or Bill but  not “Billy-Bob,“  I am not from the South, and I really think your comments border on another issue and that was to try to belittle me.... trust me better men then you have tried. One that I guess that might have been deserved, but...was not directed at the personal level. So what’s next – you going to call me, “hey Bubba?” So please let’s keep it civil. Secondly, my reference to the Bavarian language was on the mark.


It might be your opinion that I used gutter language, but your opinion is just that. Keep it for yourself??  My past comments were referring to the sad issue of getting rid of all the hotels that the Americans once used. The Walker, Skytop and now Hof have fallen and that’s sad. The Alpine Inn has long left, and any others that might have been there are also gone. As one that lived in Bavaria (B'gaden and Bad Toelz) longer then most, I thought I had the right to voice my opinion that it was indeed ignorant to level that hotel. Hey it the truth hurts sorry... But my point was directed to further deal with the word “Denkmalschutz” which apparently has been tossed by the way side by all the B'gadener city counsel members.


 Sad to see all that history and architecture is gone. The one ball room was made out real oak wood (see picture on my web site-1984). fell with the hotel, what a masterpiece that room was. So it’s sad to think that we are still wasting money for a majority for defense for a country that doesn’t really want us there.


                                                                       #   #   #  


 

USARMY1946
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:17:11 PM
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CONTROL YOURSELF “SERGEANT SUTHERLAND” I WAS JUST TRYING TO REPORT THE FACTS FROM B-GARDEN AS THEY HAVE BEEN RELAYED TO ME. I THINK THE CITY MANAGER OF B-GARDEN IS IN A BETTER POSITION TO UNDERSTAND AND KNOW WHATS BEST FOR HIS COMMUNITY THAN I AM, OR YOU FOR THAT MATTER.


TIME STANDS STILL FOR NO ONE AND TRYING TO BRING BACK SOMETHING THAT'S NOT TO BE, IS FOOLISH. I SPENT NINE (9) YEARS WITH THE ARMY IN GARMICH WHEN IT WAS THE HEADQUARTERS FOR ALL OF THE AFRC'S IN ALL LOCATION TO INCLUDE B-GARDEN. I KNOW WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE AND WHAT IS THERE NOW. THE NOW IN GARMICH PLEASES ME MORE THAN THE PAST.


DO I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF THE PAST IN GARMISCH, B-GARDEN AND OTHER AFRC LOCATIONS? OF COURSE.


WE SHALL SEE WHAT DEVELOPS IN B-GARDEN AND GARMISCH. IN THE FUTURE. I THINK THE FUTURE WILL BE BEST FOR THE GERMAN PEOPLE AND FOR US AS WELL.

USARMY1946
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:17:11 PM
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CONTROL YOURSELF “SERGEANT SUTHERLAND” I WAS JUST TRYING TO REPORT THE FACTS FROM B-GARDEN AS THEY HAVE BEEN RELAYED TO ME. I THINK THE CITY MANAGER OF B-GARDEN IS IN A BETTER POSITION TO UNDERSTAND AND KNOW WHATS BEST FOR HIS COMMUNITY THAN I AM, OR YOU FOR THAT MATTER.


TIME STANDS STILL FOR NO ONE AND TRYING TO BRING BACK SOMETHING THAT'S NOT TO BE, IS FOOLISH. I SPENT NINE (9) YEARS WITH THE ARMY IN GARMICH WHEN IT WAS THE HEADQUARTERS FOR ALL OF THE AFRC'S IN ALL LOCATION TO INCLUDE B-GARDEN. I KNOW WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE AND WHAT IS THERE NOW. THE NOW IN GARMICH PLEASES ME MORE THAN THE PAST.


DO I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF THE PAST IN GARMISCH, B-GARDEN AND OTHER AFRC LOCATIONS? OF COURSE.


WE SHALL SEE WHAT DEVELOPS IN B-GARDEN AND GARMISCH. IN THE FUTURE. I THINK THE FUTURE WILL BE BEST FOR THE GERMAN PEOPLE AND FOR US AS WELL.

Bill Sutherland
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:20:47 PM
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MR. COLE;


 


THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE ON SELF CONTROL. HOWEVER ILL PERCIEVED,  ITS DUELY NOTED.


 


YOU APPARENTLY BELIEVE TO BE A SPOKES PERSON HERE FOR {YOUR 9 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE WITH AFRC}  BY  DEFENDING THE ACTIONS OF THE BERCHTESGADEN TOWN COUNCIL? BRAVO SIR. THE DAMAGE IS DONE.


 


I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE FORUM TO ARGUE THIS PRINCIPAL.  BUT SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP, WHY NOT!


 


 


THIS WAS NEVER AN ATTEMPT TO ADVISE THOSE LOCAL BAVARIANS WHO LIVE THERE WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH I HAD LIVED , WORKED AND HAVE FAMILY THERE.


 


NO SIR, NOT UNLIKE YOURSELF WITH AFRC, I  LIVED ON THE ECONOMY, PAID GERMAN TAXES, AND LIVED AND BREATHED EVERY DAY FOR SOME 18 YEARS. 


 


 IT WAS ALSO AN ALIBI  FOR THOSE WHO SEE  HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURE TORN DOWN AND ERASED FROM THE LANDSCAPE.

USARMY1946
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:15:59 PM
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Bravo Sergeant. Sounds like you have done it all. Have a great Valentines day. What's to be will be.

Joe Pritchard
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:26:17 PM
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Guys, I hate to point it out but the German will do what they want to do and I think you need to each get a time out!


You sit in that corner and you sit in that corner.

I did buy a lottery ticket. Now if i win the 181 million dollar Ticket I'll buy Chiemsee, save it restore and if that works out we can look into rebuilding the "Hof".

Because I liked it and it would irritate the people that had it torn down, plus I had some great love affairs in those old walls. And if i win the lottery and rebuild the Hof I will do my best to sneak people in past the staff to employee house for a night in a room that is so small I can open and shut the door, get a drink from the sink change the stereo, check the closet and not get out of bed. That room was so small some times sex happened by accident.

Whoops! Sorry about that!

Oh and if anyone ever sees Jona Sweeny and I get that all done she is welcome to come try and re-inact that month.

Maybe Extreme Make over can get involved and when it is done they can MOVE THAT BUS.

And you are all welcome to sun bath on the roof.

Joe P.
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